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Post by shadowmaker on Aug 29, 2015 8:00:41 GMT -6
So I'm reading a book about it. It's called Witchcraft The Old Religion
Anyways something I read was interesting:
"Most books on Witchcraft are by non-witches. The discuss Witchcraft not as it really is but as it has been defined by the Catholic and other Christian churches. Any book that states that Witches make pacts with devils, have sex orgies, or say the Lord's Prayers backwards is either blatantly deceptive or totally ignorant of truth. Any book that discusses Witches and doesn't mention the Goddess is uniformed or Christian-motivated. These books are geared to "Pop Witches" and to those who want to toy with the idea of Witchcraft as evil; their authors and readers alike titillate their own unfounded fantasies and are nothing more than renegade Judeo-Christians. Pretentios mediocrities think that it's a quick way to recognition and power. Unethical opportunists have jumped on the bandwagon, offering all kinds of mail-order "Instant Witch" courses. All of these people are unconscious agents of the big lie fostered by the Christian Churches. Whether they are Bible Belt bullies, professional de-bunkers, believer in Beelzebub, or fast-buck artists, they all have this in common: Ignorance and a lack of intellectual integrity."
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Post by naruk on Aug 29, 2015 12:33:57 GMT -6
are you studying to be a witch, Russian bitch?
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Witchcraft
Aug 29, 2015 14:36:10 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by shadowmaker on Aug 29, 2015 14:36:10 GMT -6
are you studying to be a witch, Russian bitch? Dogs bite, be careful with your choice words! Fortunately for you, I don't bite. |
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Witchcraft
Aug 29, 2015 14:40:51 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by shadowmaker on Aug 29, 2015 14:40:51 GMT -6
Just reading to gain some insight/knowledge. Just as I've done regarding buddhism, mormonism (daniel is the pro in that), the bible, universal energy. Don't worry I won't cast dark magic spells on you. You can do that on your own with good old doubt and negative thinking. Enjoy your beautiful Saturday Kuran-Nurak-Koran
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Post by Belteshazzar on Aug 29, 2015 18:01:48 GMT -6
Most books I've come across regarding witchcraft seem to be written by Wiccans. Any Christian books about witchcraft I've come across are either from the middle ages/renaissance or are some sort of neo-Christian "everything is a cult" type of stuff. But it is true that I come across a lot of "pop" witchcraft books in bookstores like Books A Million or Barnes & Noble. In the esoteric sections, it can be difficult to find many serious books on the subjects, but you'll find a few pseudo-serious ones at least. But the pop-witchcraft books seem to be written by Wiccans, or something similar, as well. People who are actually somewhat knowledgeable about the subject, but want to write a dumb book about it to make a quick buck, and probably market it to teen girls who want to cast a spell on some boy at school to get him to fall in love with them. All that being said, I do think there are different forms of witchcraft, and different types of witches. One thing that bugs me about Wiccans is that they act like they are the ultimate authorities on the subjects of magic/witchcraft, and they are anything but. Wicca is just a neo-pagan religion that was formed in the 40's/50's as a modern conglomeration of different ideas of what ancient pagan witchcraft might be. I think a lot of it is more or less legit, but that doesn't make it exact or whole. I'm sure it's missing a lot of stuff. Witches have come from many cultures and their methods and beliefs are diverse. Furthermore, not all witches are going to be some variety of pagan or earth-worshippers. Just as Satanists do not claim to worship an actual entity called Satan - there are actual Satan worshippers that exist, and they do seek to enter into pacts with him or his spirits. Females that do such would, in fact, be actual Satanic witches that medieval books talk about. Some of them may worship Satan as the actual prince of darkness, a fallen angel in direct opposite to Jesus Christ, and some will just view Satan as one of many "dark" spirits that exist, and reject the idea of a Jesus and a judeo-Christian God completely...essentially adopting Satan, Beelzebub, Belial and others into a pantheon of basically "pagan" spirits or forces that exist in the universe. They may call upon Satan/Lucifer, but not in the sense of someone calling upon him revering him as the anti-thesis of Jesus Christ and in deliberate opposition to Jesus Christ. But then again, there are those who will. On a bit of a tangent, the original Church of Satan had a schism and some of its main leaders felt like there was an actual ancient, dark entity that exists that was worthy of their worship. They identified this entity, as near as they could tell, to be the ancient Egyptian God Set, and so they started the religion of the Temple of Set, which adopts much of the original philosophies of Satanism, but is much more occult and believes in an actual divine, dark god to worship and evoke. You can check them out here - xeper.org/ A lot of great books are written on the subjects of magic, "black" magic, witchcraft, esotericism, Satanism, ceremonial magic, enochian magic, chaos magic, etc, etc, etc....but again, hard to find a lot of serious ones on the subjects at your local book store. Better to look online, either through a major online merchane like Amazon or just googling stuff and finding esoteric sites. |
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Post by naruk on Aug 29, 2015 18:48:12 GMT -6
Deity is pretty simple.
1. Decide there is a God/ess(s)
2. Decide whether you believe we are a reflection of their perfection.
3. Worship or call upon that aspect of yourself that you believe you share with them.
When studying Deity always remember that no one really knows the name of God/ess and that no one really can say what their attributes truly are. Best bet when contacting divine beings is to have a clear idea what you are after before making the attempt.
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Witchcraft
Aug 29, 2015 20:55:02 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by shadowmaker on Aug 29, 2015 20:55:02 GMT -6
Do all mormons dig in to Witchcraft knowledge with such passion as you belte?
I'm gonna go searching to see.
Fascinating how much knowledge you have regarding it.
Does your wife share that interest too? Perhaps you should seek out some sort of ceremony to see how that goes?
Anyways, I looked up Santa Muerete since naruk wants to talk about deities. She is also know as "lady of the shadows" kinda like that name.
Would she be a satanic cult leader or a witchcraft cult leader? Or something else?
Wouldn't a witchcraft book and journals passed on for generations be more interesting than what we are told? Wonder if that exists anywhere?
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Post by Belteshazzar on Aug 29, 2015 21:50:41 GMT -6
Deity is pretty simple. 1. Decide there is a God/ess(s) 2. Decide whether you believe we are a reflection of their perfection. 3. Worship or call upon that aspect of yourself that you believe you share with them. When studying Deity always remember that no one really knows the name of God/ess and that no one really can say what their attributes truly are. Best bet when contacting divine beings is to have a clear idea what you are after before making the attempt. Pretty straightforward steps. As a Mormon, I think I have a good idea of what the Elohim are basically about, but by no means do I think I know all of what they are about, or do I think I can comprehend the depths of the basic things they are about. For example, I know God loves his children immensely, and I've experienced that love for myself, but I certainly do not comprehend how it is or why it is to the great extent that it is. Being a father myself, I think I catch a small glimpse, but that's all. Regarding contacting any spirits or other entities in the universe, whether they be good or evil or maybe even sort of neutral, I think you have to be very careful. Again, as a Mormon, the rule of thumb is that the Holy Ghost should be your guide in all spiritual pursuits, which means learning to be in tune with him so that you can hear/feel his promptings. In the Church, it talks about being able to have ministering angels, (angels meaning messenger, so my guess is that it could probably be any good spirit or being of any rank sent from God) and I take that at face value and as something that would be worth pursuing. |
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Post by Belteshazzar on Aug 29, 2015 22:07:59 GMT -6
Do all mormons dig in to Witchcraft knowledge with such passion as you belte? I'm gonna go searching to see. Fascinating how much knowledge you have regarding it. Does your wife share that interest too? Perhaps you should seek out some sort of ceremony to see how that goes? Anyways, I looked up Santa Muerete since naruk wants to talk about deities. She is also know as "lady of the shadows" kinda like that name. Would she be a satanic cult leader or a witchcraft cult leader? Or something else? Wouldn't a witchcraft book and journals passed on for generations be more interesting than what we are told? Wonder if that exists anywhere? Haha, nope. But I think a few of us are probably more open minded towards things that are "occult," just with how different we are and how we believe that the restoration of Christ's church involved Joseph Smith being receptive to the bits and pieces of truth that were scattered amongst all religions/philosophies. But that being said, I've encountered plenty of obstinate Mormons that either refuse to look outside of the box, or are just apathetic and don't care. In every religion, you have members who set themselves up as the "doctrine police" and they will try and tell you you're wrong for reasons x, y and z, but really, I'm not contradicting any doctrines, I'm just willing to believe there is much more to learn than the basics, as long as the Holy Ghost is your guide. I believe that in any spiritual sense, if you want real supernatural power and wisdom, you have to be willing to dig, experiment and go to lengths. Studying esotericism and the occult has taught me much and I am sure will continue to teach me. Part of it is just that I want to be knowledgeable, but the other part is that I really do want to push the boundaries and obtain power and/or blessings of the divine. It's a life-long spiritual quest. |
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Post by naruk on Aug 30, 2015 9:05:08 GMT -6
I believe the reasoning that witchery is frowned upon by Christians is that since they believe we are made in the image of God that we have a glimmering of ability to perform things like spells, curses, divination etc, and that in using this ability we are somehow making an affront on Gods grace.
Christians believe that only God Angels Saints and Christ are able to perform miraculous acts and therefor one should pray for intervention rather than take action in the sense of spellcraft.
Shadowmaker if youre truly interested in learning about old rituals and shadow magic I recommend buying a copy of the Gems of the Equinox by Aliester Crowley. Its 35 dollars on Amazon but it has a wealth of information regarding things. Mr Crowley was above all else, a conservator of old rituals, as well as a craftsman of them himself.
As far as Elohim go, I think its great that you have faith in a system that provides names and attributes and myth, though I think it is somewhat foolish to believe it myself.
Every stable religion has its deity and its prophet(s), and Im sure that God(ess) listens regardless of name and religious designation.
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Post by shadowmaker on Aug 30, 2015 9:10:24 GMT -6
Hmmm sounds like an interesting book. Thx naruk.
I'd rather it come in my path at work because it'd be ridiculously cheap!! I asked for witchcraft books and two days later I got 3 of them!
Regardless, if it's meant for me to read, it will find its way to me eventually.
And no I wouldn't say I'm gonna go down into witchcraft......I believe in the universal energies...frequencies and vibrations of connectedness.
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Post by naruk on Aug 30, 2015 9:36:46 GMT -6
I understand wanting to save a buck, but I doubt this is the type of book that will show up used too often, as it isnt the kind that a casual reader would buy. Its really a steal at 35 dollars because it has hundreds of pages.
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Post by shadowmaker on Aug 30, 2015 9:49:14 GMT -6
Well that's not in my budget. I have to buy a phone battery which would be the book money.
I could ask my wonderful friend to buy it and send it, but damn that's 35 bucks out of his pocket and he might not have it either. However that would mean I'd have to try calling AGAIN and that's like calling a ghost at this point. He answers once every so many months *shrugs* so its practically pointless. Maybe another mr smarty pants has it for me to borrow. Idk
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Post by shadowmaker on Aug 30, 2015 9:56:24 GMT -6
Seriously 1200 pages???
I need a vacation again to indulge in this lmao!
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Post by Belteshazzar on Aug 30, 2015 20:20:05 GMT -6
I believe the reasoning that witchery is frowned upon by Christians is that since they believe we are made in the image of God that we have a glimmering of ability to perform things like spells, curses, divination etc, and that in using this ability we are somehow making an affront on Gods grace. Christians believe that only God Angels Saints and Christ are able to perform miraculous acts and therefor one should pray for intervention rather than take action in the sense of spellcraft. Shadowmaker if youre truly interested in learning about old rituals and shadow magic I recommend buying a copy of the Gems of the Equinox by Aliester Crowley. Its 35 dollars on Amazon but it has a wealth of information regarding things. Mr Crowley was above all else, a conservator of old rituals, as well as a craftsman of them himself. As far as Elohim go, I think its great that you have faith in a system that provides names and attributes and myth, though I think it is somewhat foolish to believe it myself. Every stable religion has its deity and its prophet(s), and Im sure that God(ess) listens regardless of name and religious designation. An affront on God's grace...that's an interesting thought, and I don't doubt that there are probably many Christians that may see it that way. As for me, and in my Mormon world, I see it as the Church (i.e, the Mormon Church) trying to caution and prevent people from essentially going rogue and ultimately being deceived. There are powers out there - but not all of those powers are necessarily going to be of God, per se. There are lying spirits, there are false prophets and deceiving visions, even if they have much truth in them, one lie or simple untruth can mislead greatly. I believe there is much truth in the occult, but also much falsehood. I think the truth is worth mining - as did Joseph Smith and many of the other prophets. Joseph Smith himself was a student of the Kabbalah, entered into Freemasonry, and was in his youth well acquainted and involved with aspects of folk magic. This tells me that there is more truth out there to be discovered than what is there in the standard, canonical doctrines and teachings of the Church that are taught to the masses. There are going to be many deep secret and hidden truths that are waiting for those who seek them, and will assist in the obtaining of blessings/power/knowledge, and that will not conflict with the already established true doctrines. It's my opinion that Joseph Smith and some of the other prophets likely knew of these things and were involved with them (astrology, aspects of magic, etc) during their times as prophets of the Church, but that they were not shared with the masses simply because such things aren't meant to be shared on that type of level, in that sort of way. This isn't an utterly absurd thought, as there are traditions that Moses, Noah, and even Jesus knew of and were to an extent involved in those things as well, and astrology was a major part of the Christian and Jewish tradition up until the 1600's or so, when the Pope started purging it and cultural attitudes started changing. It's also written that the prophets and apostles and Jesus himself had additional knowledge that was not meant for the uninitiated. So I see it as possible that some sort of magical systems or methodologies may be harmonious with the doctrines of the gospel as laid forth - per validation through the discerning power of the Holy Ghost, whose mission is to be the Testifier of the truth of all things. By the way, naruk, it's cool that you are knowledgeable about this stuff as well and it's really refreshing to be able to talk with others on this topic in an intelligent way. So thanks to you and shadowmaker. |
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